Some Goodness

[00:00:00] Richard Ellis: Forrester says that within the next two years, roughly 90% of B2B executives wanna buy without ever talking to a sales rep. At the same time, OpenAI and other AI native companies are hiring SDRs by the hundreds. The signal feels contradictory, and that contradiction is exactly what makes the next six months in B2B so hard to predict.

[00:00:22] Richard Ellis: Today, we get specific about where the noise is real, where the human still wins, and what sellers and leaders should be doing right now to be ready for what comes next. Welcome to Some Goodness, where we engage seasoned business leaders and experts to share practical guidance and tips to help new and future leaders maximize their impact.

[00:00:41] Richard Ellis: My guest today is Brayden Young, co-founder of Slash Experts and previously of Simdoso. In our last conversation, we talked about why your existing customers are the best sellers you're not using. Today, we zoom out a bit. What is B2B selling about to look like, and what do leaders need to be doing now to stay ahead of it?

[00:00:59] Richard Ellis: [00:01:00] Brayden, welcome back.

[00:01:01] Braydan Young: Good to be here. This is my second time on, so, you know, feeling like, like I know what I'm doing now.

[00:01:06] Richard Ellis: There you go. Well, uh, we had a great conversation last time, so looking forward to diving in with you today and really kinda giving a, a new look into what B2B sales looks like kinda now and going forward in light of, you know, recent trends and AI and all of this other goodness.

[00:01:25] Richard Ellis: You ready to dive in?

[00:01:26] Braydan Young: Yeah, sounds good to me. I think that, like, depends too on, on when we post this 'cause it feels like every day there's a new B2B AI tool that someone vibe coded or created. It's, uh, it's amazing how fast the space is moving.

[00:01:40] Richard Ellis: That is a great point. Yeah. Are, are some of these podcast episodes gonna be outdated really quickly?

[00:01:47] Richard Ellis: Yeah. Maybe

[00:01:47] Braydan Young: so. Right? It's like, "Oh, I-- they, they didn't talk about ABC tool that just launched," and it's... We're, we're-- So I'm in San Francisco, and it's funny 'cause there's, like, a competition when you drive, when you leave SFO and drive home and go to the [00:02:00] city, all the billboards change so quickly- Mm-hmm

[00:02:02] Braydan Young: 'cause these companies are raising insane amounts of money, and, like, then they buy all the billboards for a week, and they change again. Oh my God. And so it's just, uh, it's funny to see how much they're trying to get attention, I would say, on the freeway using old school billboard marketing tactics.

[00:02:20] Richard Ellis: No kidding.

[00:02:21] Richard Ellis: No kidding. I didn't even think about, you know, how this translates to the analog world of updating, you know, signs and billboards and, and things of that nature.

[00:02:29] Braydan Young: Yeah. Still the same old, like, what's on the side of a bus in San Francisco and a billboard off the freeway, and that's your, that's your go-to-market plan.

[00:02:38] Richard Ellis: Right. Right. Well, let's, uh, let's dive in, and let's start with, uh, a bit of a buyer perspective. So Forrester has put out some great research, and one line or, or stat that, that gets quoted a, a lot is, you know, something like 90% of executives wanna buy without talking to a rep, right? Something in that order of magnitude has been quoted, you know, I think for the past [00:03:00] year or so.

[00:03:00] Richard Ellis: From your perspective, does that really hold up in practice? And kinda what are you seeing in terms of buyers wanting to be able to just buy without talking to a real person?

[00:03:09] Braydan Young: Yeah. You know, there's-- You can kinda look at it from two angles. I think the first one is what we see, and we've built/experts in that space, is a lot of folks are reading reviews, talking to friends, doing back channels, talking to folks who they know use the tech at a different company before they go and press that, like, take a demo button.

[00:03:28] Braydan Young: Like, they already have an idea, like, "Hey, I know this solves a problem that I have," or, "I know this solved a friend's problem. I have the same problem. I'm gonna go talk to them, and I'm gonna purchase as fast as I can." So I, I think there's a couple different angles there. Like, most are just like, "Hey, can I..."

[00:03:44] Braydan Young: "Reviews are fine. Can I get a sample demo?" Great. "Can I get, like, a pilot for..." If you're an enterprise company, it's always a pilot for a month. There's a ton of different ways folks are kinda testing before they decide to move forward with a product 'cause there's so many [00:04:00] unproven systems out there that are just brand new.

[00:04:03] Braydan Young: Right. I mean, it's tough right now. Like, there's, there's a lot of startups that are saying, "Hey, we work with all these enterprise customers," which is great. It's a great thing to say, great to go raise money on. But the problem is, is every single enterprise company has, like, a budget for AI tools. So they go and they sell, like Oracle, awesome.

[00:04:21] Braydan Young: Great, Oracle's now a customer. They're not, 'cause like they're gonna... They bought you and all your competition, and they're testing all of you and seeing which one sticks, which one works the best to solve their problem. And then at the end of that pilot phase, they leave you. And so, like I think that there's a different metric you gotta look at as, as you're looking, as you're kind of building go to market.

[00:04:37] Braydan Young: It's do you integrate with their CRM? Great. Like, are you multi-threaded? Awesome. I think there's many things there that, uh, you know, prove if you're sticky beyond just like selling a deal. So I, I think like that's one angle you can look at. The other one is like to your stat, folks just s- like sales is one of those things when you're on the phone with somebody, if it's not the right sales rep, I mean, they're being motivated to sell your product, and so like that's how they're [00:05:00] paid.

[00:05:00] Braydan Young: And so a lot of the time- Right ... they're not giving you the data you want. Right. And it's sometimes hard to find a really good sales rep, someone who's like, "Hey, like we're not a fit for you." Like that's, that's okay to say. Like it's, it's, it's good to be consultative on a call.

[00:05:12] Richard Ellis: Sure.

[00:05:12] Braydan Young: But the sales rep is motivated to sell something 'cause they need to hit their number, and with these rounds of funding we're seeing, there's big numbers they have to hit.

[00:05:19] Braydan Young: And so there's gonna be folks that aren't fits, and I think sometimes it's hard to say no, but you have to as a sales rep. And then the last thing you said was, will folks buy without talking to somebody? I think the line's 10 grand. So I think that if it's over 10 grand, you need a human in the loop. If it's below 10 grand- Yeah

[00:05:36] Braydan Young: I think maybe it's like a PLG play. There's exceptions. I mean, there's Amazon- Sure ... Web Services- Sure ... and all those, but I don't know. Like I like talking to a human. I mean, I think that like the o- like one throat to choke sort of thing. If someone messes up- Mm-hmm ... you know who to go to. I think that like there's...

[00:05:49] Braydan Young: I just don't know if that ever goes like fully automated, especially over 10,000 bucks. I know there's companies that are building that space that disagree with me, and I think that they can prove that there's lots of like deals they've sold that are way over [00:06:00] $10,000 that a human was never involved, but-

[00:06:02] Richard Ellis: Sure

[00:06:03] Braydan Young: maybe sales changes to more of an account management role. And like, so maybe like after you buy it for, you know, 40 grand or like a person helps you onboard and that's your salesperson. Like almost like a land and expand type method. But I don't think that's happening anytime soon.

[00:06:14] Richard Ellis: Yeah, no, I think you bring up a good point.

[00:06:16] Richard Ellis: A- and you could argue about the 10,000. Is it, you know, where is that threshold? But I think there is a threshold there where above it it's more of a complex platform or a more significant investment. You do want to talk to who are you going to be partnering with? This is a- Yeah ... strategic decision for the business, and y- y- you don't wanna just go into it from, you know, a couple of demos and a trial.

[00:06:35] Braydan Young: Especially if you're new. Now, I do think there's sunk cost software systems out there, and this is probably, people would disagree with me on this. Like I think if you're building a CRM, you're gonna go HubSpot or Salesforce. Like they're proven, they work well. Sure. I don't need to talk to a sales rep at HubSpot.

[00:06:50] Braydan Young: Like I know I want it, so let me sign up, leave me alone. They're just names that have been around forever that are like the sunk cost systems. Like you know you're gonna go AWS. I don't need to talk to a sales rep there. Right. And so like I think that [00:07:00] those ones have proven brands, proven value I don't think that, you know, they have a problem with that.

[00:07:06] Braydan Young: But if you're a startup that's a couple years old and you're in a new space and you're trying to build, or if you're like kind of like, kind of like a niche type software, I think you do.

[00:07:14] Richard Ellis: Got it. Got it.

[00:07:15] Braydan Young: Yeah.

[00:07:15] Richard Ellis: Well, and you also bring up a good point, you know, going back to that stat that, you know, it's also about the sales interaction, right?

[00:07:22] Richard Ellis: Companies a- and buyers, uh, specifically are much more educated than they ever were. They have, you know, just data at their fingertips, especially through AI agent. Now I don't have to go search Reddit forums to find, you know, comparative pricing. I could just tell my agent, "Go do this research for me and come, you know, educate me," right?

[00:07:40] Richard Ellis: And so, uh, I thought you brought a, a great point that it's not that maybe they necessarily don't wanna talk to a rep, it's like they don't wanna talk to a bad rep that's not helpful or valuable, that's gonna waste their time, and what, you know, what keeps you up at night, right? Yes. Tell me your pain points.

[00:07:54] Richard Ellis: And it's like, oh, I'm beyond that.

[00:07:56] Braydan Young: I mean, it, it wasn't long ago that like, I mean, when I [00:08:00] started in sales, the process was you first, you go like, "I want a demo." Raise your hand, like, "I'd like to find information about you." And then you were basically sent to an SDR who, you know, I started there, like 22-year-olds- Yep

[00:08:09] Braydan Young: who basically are like, "Hey," like, uh, right out of college, like they're gonna qualify you. Ask you questions like, "You know, what's your stack? What are you gonna spend?" And if you're good, then you go to the AE. And then you go to the AE, then you go to the SE. And so you have the AE, the SE both on the phone.

[00:08:21] Braydan Young: And then some point manager comes in, they're gonna close the deal. And so basically now you've talked to four people. And like you're gonna close a deal that, and maybe they loop in like the CEO if they're a company because they're like, "Great to welcome you to the team." So you have five people involved, and the CX, six people.

[00:08:34] Braydan Young: So you're talking to six people, and the deal size is 24K. Like, that's too many. I think that like now- Yeah ... it's like, I mean, your AE, your SDR, and your SE, I think needs to be one person. I think that like if you're an AE right now and you're starting your job or your career, I think to be technical is really important.

[00:08:51] Richard Ellis: Yeah. Very good. Well, and just, you know, pointing out the, uh, kind of the underlying principle there is one size doesn't fit all, and so you, you need to really segment [00:09:00] your, your market a- and your buyers and your, your ICP and, you know, those larger, more strategic accounts, you know, they're gonna be bigger, more strategic deals, bigger buying committees, and you may need a team to support that kind of a sales motion.

[00:09:13] Braydan Young: Yeah.

[00:09:14] Richard Ellis: Bottom of the tier, you don't need six people. It slows you down, it frustrates the client, right? And so really kind of aligning your customer engagement approach to the, uh, the market segments, uh, would be a great place to start, and I see a lot of missed opportunity there.

[00:09:29] Braydan Young: Yeah, I do too. I mean, I don't think there seems to be that many people involved in a, in a deal cycle.

[00:09:34] Braydan Young: I think that there's, uh, so I think there's lots of opportunity there for less humans in the loop, but I do think there needs to be one Like probably for the next five, 10 years. I mean, you see the big AI companies all hiring SDR teams because they know there needs to be somebody to help, you know, navigate the big enterprise deals to help get deals closed.

[00:09:54] Richard Ellis: Well, I wanna-- That's a great segue to my next question for you is, you mentioned humans and AI [00:10:00] companies. It's, it's kind of strange to watch these large AI companies that, you know, should arguably need less humans because they're an AI native company. I mean, they're building the stuff. They're hiring hundreds of SDRs.

[00:10:12] Richard Ellis: And so-

[00:10:13] Braydan Young: Yeah ...

[00:10:13] Richard Ellis: what does that tell you, and what are some of your takeaways just based on your experience?

[00:10:17] Braydan Young: So, like Salesforce being like, you know, like the best trained sales people of all time, it's funny. Anthropic I think has hired all of them. Like if you were at Salesforce like in like the early 2000s and you were a manager, like you're probably at Anthropic right now.

[00:10:31] Braydan Young: And it just proves that you can get your foot in the door with a name like Anthropic to big enterprise customers spending lots and lots of money with you, which is amazing. I mean, it's amazing marketing. But in order to grow those accounts, in order to have different teams use it to roll out new product SKUs to help land and expand those accounts, you have to have people do it.

[00:10:51] Braydan Young: I don't think that your brand is strong enough to do it on its own. I think that like people have to help navigate those different things you're rolling [00:11:00] out every two days if you're Anthropic in that example, so having sales helps. I also think that there's-- People are, are inherently, I mean, like for lack of better term, lazy with new things.

[00:11:10] Braydan Young: Like I get like a newsletter from all the softwares I use, like probably once a month. I never read it. I just delete it. I'm like, "Cool. Things you rolled out," I don't, I don't read those. So you have to have someone, you know, doing your QBRs in sales be like, "Hey, by the way, these are the four things we just rolled out because we noticed some of our customers are having problems with ABC.

[00:11:27] Braydan Young: You should use them too." So I think that like that's- Right ... you're never gonna sell that through a newsletter. Like I mean- Right ... maybe there's exceptions. Maybe if you're AWS and you're selling to engineers and like you built this new product, maybe. I don't think so. I think that there has to be a human involved there somewhere.

[00:11:41] Braydan Young: And so I think that they know that at the big AI companies and I think that's why they're hiring sales. That's why they're hiring account management, why they're hiring CX. And then SDRs because the bubbles that we live in, AI is like a topic of conversation. But if you're like a, I don't know, Procter & Gamble company or like you're a big HVAC company [00:12:00] in Kentucky or Tennessee or something like that, AI is not even on your radar.

[00:12:03] Braydan Young: And like- Right ... you might do, you know, 50 million a year, but like you'd have never-- Like, I don't know what an AI SDR is. And so I think like that has to be able to be navigated, too. I mean, Salesforce is still a massive sales team. Like what? They're 30 years old and they're still trying to bring companies to use Salesforce.

[00:12:18] Braydan Young: Right. Which is crazy to us because we've had it for so long. But like there's still companies out there that have never touched a CRM.

[00:12:23] Richard Ellis: Which is kind of crazy when you think about it, but it's true.

[00:12:26] Braydan Young: Yeah. I mean, like there's still like, whenever you go to like more of like the trade, like, like blue collar type of the world, like there's like, I mean, like I think the other day I had a guy who's like gonna trim my trees around my house.

[00:12:36] Braydan Young: So he's like, "Great, I'll be there like Tuesday between like 8:00 and 5:00." You're like, "Okay, cool. I'll just stay home all day and like hope that like you show up at some point." CRMs can help with that. I mean, like it's still like none of that's changed. And like there's so many companies that aren't in the AI bubble that haven't even touched it yet that I think, you know, it's why you have to have sales still to help you do it.

[00:12:53] Richard Ellis: Yeah. That's a great point. Well, so we've talked a little bit about kind of the, the no rep approach and then the full on [00:13:00] rep approach. There's kind of a hybrid or an in, in between approach that, you know, it's the emergence of avatar reps and- Yep ... AI reps, right? And so tell me where, uh, where you're seeing that get some real good traction, where it's appropriate and it works well versus, uh, you know, if you're this type of company or industry, you might wanna stay away from that.

[00:13:19] Braydan Young: I think that's where we are. I th- I think most, especially the companies that we talk to are in like that middle approach. Like you used to have to hire five AEs to handle like, you know, X amount of pipeline. And I think now one AE could do the job of three or four because of the AI tools that are out there.

[00:13:34] Braydan Young: Like maybe they're not on a first demo, maybe it's a recorded demo from an avatar. But at some point you have to talk to the person to close the deal. All of your cadences and sequencing from like beginning to end to like all that's done by AI at some point. The deal's closed, they're onboarding, all that is self-controlled.

[00:13:49] Braydan Young: And so I think there's a lot of different jobs that you don't need as many people for. Like we're on the phone with somebody and they ask very technical questions, like there's enough SE tools out there, sales engineering tools, [00:14:00] that can help you answer technical questions. So I think there's a lot of stuff that helps one S- one AE do the jobs of like four or five people.

[00:14:09] Braydan Young: Yeah. Which I think is why you see a lot of companies move towards layoffs, because they're like, "Great, I can get rid of some middle management folks that are responsible for a s- like a, like a part of the segment that just seems unnecessary now because one person can just do the job of more." Now, I do think that this creates new jobs- That we haven't heard of before, like go-to-market engineers, people that are helping set up that, those cadences.

[00:14:36] Braydan Young: Right. Uh, I think that there's, I think content writers are still very, very important for outbound sales emails. I think marketers are insanely important to try to help a brand stand out. So I think there's, there's new jobs that are being created because of AI that are more technical jobs, but I don't think there's as many, uh, I think some of the older jobs we're gonna see go away.

[00:14:57] Braydan Young: I think like the traditional SDR will go away. [00:15:00] But I think the more technical SDR I th- I think will, you know, be a new job that folks will have.

[00:15:04] Richard Ellis: Yeah. I see there's, yeah, definitely an evolution there, right? Yeah. And, and some of it is kind of clear i- in terms of where things are headed, some of it unclear that we're just gonna learn as the tools get better and the technology gets more capable.

[00:15:16] Richard Ellis: One of the things I've seen is, especially from the avatar rep type of standpoint, is that works really well for PLG companies, right? You know. Great. Yeah, I

[00:15:25] Braydan Young: agree.

[00:15:25] Richard Ellis: Yeah. You have a nice scripted story-based demo led by an avatar, and you can get a lot of information for that. It's probably all you need to really sign up for that trial of two seats and give it a go.

[00:15:36] Richard Ellis: And then, you know, at some point there might be some conversion where you talk to a real rep if you wanna expand it for a whole department or an enterprise license or something like that. But outside of PLG type companies, do you see avatars specifically, or just kind of automating that sales cycle be helpful or, or optimal that people might not be considering?

[00:15:56] Richard Ellis: I think,

[00:15:56] Braydan Young: I think it's helpful. I think it's helpful to have as an option. I think [00:16:00] you, I think you really need to know your industry and who you're selling to also. I mean, if you, if you look at when you're trying to get a deal signed, I think you have to look at it from like who your signer is too. And- Mm-hmm

[00:16:12] Braydan Young: generationally, like, like who's the person signing on the dotted line? Like you have, the baby boomers are still working. Mm-hmm. Millennials are all like in their 40s now, and so like those guys are signing contracts. And then the gen, and then, you know, Gen X and those guys. So you, you're signing to people that grew up in a world of cold calling, of face-to-face, of dinners, of golf and things like that.

[00:16:29] Braydan Young: So I think you still have to have that as part of your sales motion. I, I do think you can get really far with an avatar and like a PLG type system, maybe some mid-market type stuff. But I do think if you go and try to hit those enterprise companies up or ask for bigger contracts, I do think there has to be human in the loop there to help move the deal forward, just 'cause it's how we were all trained.

[00:16:50] Braydan Young: Now, that might be different in 10 years, 20 years from now. Maybe it's totally different, where it's like, hey, people are comfortable just Paying $60,000 plus for a tool- Yeah ... and you talk to anybody. [00:17:00] There's exceptions. I mean, like Amazon, like we pay a ton to them. Claude, we pay a ton to them, or Anthropics.

[00:17:05] Braydan Young: I mean, like those are tools that you're just okay, but they're more outcome-based pricing versus like a SaaS type model, which I think is why you see the- Right ... SaaSpocalypse and all those things happening 'cause everyone's moving towards the outcome-based pricing.

[00:17:17] Richard Ellis: Yeah. Good. Yeah. I, I love this conversation because you're just picking your brain about different e- elements, and it's really about kind of, you know, in light of, uh, the latest technological advances in AI, you know, how does that really change or shape, uh, legacy approaches?

[00:17:32] Richard Ellis: And so another- Yeah ... one comes to mind, you mentioned earlier about, you know, you're talking about CRMs. So one other trend that I'm seeing, I just want your, your perspective on, is, you know, this emergence of the, the all-in-one, you know, kind of platforms that, you know, like the, the legacy approach is you've got your CRM system, right?

[00:17:50] Richard Ellis: Which everybody knows what that is. And then you've got your, your call intelligence add-on, right? It might be an, an Outreach or a Gong or something. So you buy that, and then you've got your, you [00:18:00] know, account intelligence stuff, which is Apollo or whatever. But now we're seeing these companies like RSL and Monaco and, and others come in and say, "Hey, we can do that all for you in one single platform.

[00:18:11] Richard Ellis: You don't need all of these individual licenses." Are you seeing that trend as well? Oh, yeah. And what is that saying about where are we going? And are there any kind of- Yeah ... gotchas we need to be careful about? And just give us some insights.

[00:18:23] Braydan Young: I mean, I think that there's-- I think those are very cool systems to, I mean, we're, we're a new user of, of Monaco, and they just bought us as well, which I- I'm excited about.

[00:18:32] Braydan Young: I, I, I think having one system do it all is great. I don't think that they take over the CRM space, but maybe everything else. I'm pretty bullish that I think the Salesforces and the HubSpots Stay around forever because they're so secure also, which is insanely important. When you start storing customer data in a company that's new, it's kind of scary.

[00:18:54] Braydan Young: And so like maybe in five years that'll be different. But like I, I do think if you're a cadence tool, a call tool, [00:19:00] a data tool, I think all those will be one over the next couple years for sure. Like, I think if you're in that space and you're someone who's been there for a long time, then I think it's a, it's a scary place to be because you gotta figure out how you compete on multiple fronts, which is not a problem that I think they've ever had.

[00:19:15] Braydan Young: I do think there's too many tools, and so like having one that does it all is great. I think that's a great solution. I think it makes it easier for people that are engineers who are building companies who are like, "I don't know go-to-market. If I just write one tool, great." I think it's gonna be telling to see like how that goes over the next year.

[00:19:30] Braydan Young: They've all raised a scary amount of money, and so like I don't know like what that looks like 'cause- Right ... they're gonna have to expand very fast and hit some very big numbers and spend a lot of money on marketing. So it's, it's gonna be interesting to see what happens over the next couple years to see how many folks they can bring on.

[00:19:49] Braydan Young: And then going from the SMBs to the enterprise is gonna-- 'Cause like no one's ever been able to dethrone Salesforce just 'cause they're so ingrained. True. And so like- Yeah ... does a Procter & Gamble leave [00:20:00] Salesforce and go to a one, all-in-one solution? I don't think so.

[00:20:04] Richard Ellis: Not anytime-

[00:20:04] Braydan Young: Like not anytime soon.

[00:20:05] Richard Ellis: Yeah.

[00:20:05] Richard Ellis: Yeah. No, not anytime soon. That's right. Yeah. It's gotta be proven because, you know, half of the vendors or, or the tools out there today, uh, won't, won't exist next year, right? Yeah. And so- Um, there'll be kind of, well, let's just say, you know, I, I was gonna say reckoning, but

[00:20:20] Braydan Young: Yeah. Well, I mean, I, I, I think it's like, it's a good point.

[00:20:23] Braydan Young: I went to a dinner the other day and there was an interesting... Like, they're, they were talking about how, like, it's been possible for a long time to use AI to build a CRM, like for years. Like, you can use it to build a CRM. The thing, the reason you buy Salesforce and HubSpot is because they've had millions and millions of bugs reported.

[00:20:38] Braydan Young: They've dealt with them. Yeah. If something goes down, you know who to go to to fix it, to yell at. If you have your own CRM that you built with AI and it goes down, it's on you. That's why I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon. I just like, that's why I think that the... I'm a Salesforce stock owner, so I'm thinking those, those all need to go back up, right?

[00:20:54] Richard Ellis: Right. Right. Yeah. But what we are gonna see is a lot of rationalization and consolidation of [00:21:00] tools, right?

[00:21:00] Braydan Young: I agree.

[00:21:01] Richard Ellis: Yeah. Over, over the coming years. And so, uh, that, that puts the onus on these tech companies to differentiate themselves, live up to the promises they're making, right? Create some stickiness as they go to market and penetrate their markets, uh, 'cause it's gonna be- There's a new-

[00:21:15] Richard Ellis: it's gonna

[00:21:15] Braydan Young: be tough ... there's a new company. There's a new thing every, like, there's a new wrapper- I know ... every, like, couple days, which is, like, just wild in terms of, like... And they raise a ton of money. I mean, there's YC companies that spin out that are, you know, raise seven million bucks and, like, they're like, "Oh, we do X."

[00:21:29] Braydan Young: And you're like, you're like, "That's a feature. It's not a platform. It's a feature." Yeah. And, like, that's interesting to see what happens with all those guys.

[00:21:34] Richard Ellis: Let, let's kind of talk about from a leader perspective. So in light of, you know, these are a lot of real time challenges that we're dealing with. You know, as a leader of a business, you don't wanna have a wait and see attitude because you'll be left behind.

[00:21:46] Richard Ellis: But at the same time, can't go all in a- and bet the farm on one player 'cause they might not exist in a year, and there's just, you know, to your point, new technologies a- and new companies coming out daily. So what are some [00:22:00] takeaways for our business leaders, revenue leaders, marketing leaders i- in light of You know, these trends.

[00:22:06] Richard Ellis: Any good practical tips for us?

[00:22:08] Braydan Young: I think that, like, if you're leading a go-to-market department, I- I've always believed heavily in partnerships in terms of, like... And I think there's two kinds of partnerships. There's the one where you go and partner with the big dogs, the Salesforces of the world, and they don't care about you, but it's good to have a partnership there until you're, unless you're a big company.

[00:22:26] Braydan Young: But like, it's, it's always good to have some form of partnership there. And then I think with companies that are the same size as you, like maybe a little bigger, I think it's good to build like a group of you. Let's say five or six companies that, like, your platforms play really nicely together, and it's good to go and do events with them, do dinners with them, do things like that, 'cause you kinda like, like you, you take your impact and you divide it by five 'cause you have, you know, bigger teams to help do it.

[00:22:47] Braydan Young: So I think if you're a sales leader, having some form of that is very, very important. I don't care if your company is two people. I think, like, selling in a silo is hard, and so having some form of partnership is, is very beneficial to you to help get [00:23:00] deals. Like, we do a million dinners, and it's, it's great because you have someone talking about you, and it's good to sell deals that way.

[00:23:05] Braydan Young: Uh, I think that's important. I think events are very important still. Mm-hmm. I think, like, no matter how you talk about AI and all that great stuff that's happening with it, all these AI companies are going to conferences. 'Cause that's all like, it's like, so in person is very important. In person, the way I look at events is, like, I take a, I, I do the expo floor a lot and, like, learn what's there, and then I typically go to, like, one or two sessions, and then I go to, like, a happy hour for the first 30 minutes, and I get out of there.

[00:23:31] Braydan Young: Like, I take a stack of business cards in. I'm like, "Once these are gone, I'm go- I'm done." Which is helpful. There's a lot of them in San Francisco, and so that helps to kinda like monitor yourself. Sure. Like, I'm gonna get through this stack of 50, hand it out, and then I'm gonna go home and, you know, hang out with my family.

[00:23:43] Braydan Young: So I think, I think it's important to, uh, just know what events are good. And then I think lastly is, like, just there's so much noise out there on LinkedIn and just to ignore a lot of it and just, like, stick with your thesis as to what you're building and to talk to your customers a [00:24:00] lot and friends and people that you know in the space you're building in and be like, "Hey, is this, do you think this is still relevant?"

[00:24:05] Braydan Young: And like, if it's not, then pivot and change. I think that pivots are very accepted these days.

[00:24:09] Richard Ellis: Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I'll echo kind of your advice on partnerships and community and, and networking and, and getting together in person. One of the things that we've seen a lot of value in recently is putting on happy hours or luncheons, um, with local leaders.

[00:24:25] Richard Ellis: We- we've got consultants or, or principals in San Diego and Dallas and Nashville, and so we've held some of these in-person events. And to get, you know, 10 to 20 people around a table just to share what are you seeing? How are you dealing with this? As much as we try to keep up on everything, it's impossible, right?

[00:24:41] Richard Ellis: And so it's, it's always great to just hear others' perspectives and what they've tried and failed at or tried and succeeded at a- and just get some insight from other leaders.

[00:24:50] Braydan Young: You bring up a good point there. We've, we did this at Sendoso too, like selling through consultants and agencies is the best 'cause they are far more trusted than your sales team.

[00:24:59] Braydan Young: Mm-hmm. [00:25:00] And so to, to, to get them on board and using your tool or product And then they talk about you on a phone call you're not on. Like, "Oh, hey, I saw a company- Yes ... that did X." And, like, they're compensated for knowing, like, what's the latest and greatest. And so, like, to educate them on, like, why you're in their space and why you should partner with them, that's massive.

[00:25:17] Braydan Young: And, like, that's a... Like, I think it's good to partner with the other tech companies or whatever space you're in, but, like, consultants in your space is- Yeah ... such a huge benefit.

[00:25:25] Richard Ellis: Yeah. Agreed. Well, I was just looking at the clock, and we are over our time, so, uh, it's time to bring the episode to a close unfortunately.

[00:25:32] Richard Ellis: We could talk for, for an hour, I know. But let's go ahead and wrap it up there. Lots of great insights and practical tips. Always a pleasure to have you on the show. But I gotta ask- My pleasure ... my, my famous question at the end here, and that's what's something else that's brought you a little bit of goodness other than AI and all of this fun work stuff?

[00:25:48] Braydan Young: Yeah. I was, I was, uh, I think the last time I was on, I mentioned a book, like, called Let Your People Surf, which, which was a good one, but I'll, I'll go a different direction this time. I found a long [00:26:00] time ago, like, exercise is the best thing ever for, like, a clear head. And, like, I've recently have gotten really into running again.

[00:26:08] Braydan Young: Like, I've, I, I... When I was younger, I did a couple marathons. And, and I, and so, like- Oh, wow ... I think some of, some of that I've started doing is I pick an event, like whether it be a 5K or a marathon or a Ironman if you're crazy, and, like, s- get s- have it six months out, 10 months out, and then, like, train for that event.

[00:26:23] Braydan Young: And, like, it's not work-related, but it's one of those things that, like, when you're healthy and in shape and post-workout, I think way clearer. And so, like, my advice is try to do something crazy that's athletic at least once a year, whether it is some sort of run, swim, whatever. Like, I, I did the swim from Alcatraz once.

[00:26:42] Braydan Young: That was, that was dumb. But it was, it was fun. So, like, I- ... I recommend having something like that. Like, uh, go climb a mountain. Yeah. Something that I think is important to have at least once a year, and I think that that, that's a good goal as well as you're building a company or, you know, running your company.

[00:26:57] Braydan Young: Like, to have that will only help the company grow faster. [00:27:00]

[00:27:00] Richard Ellis: I think, I think that's fantastic. And, uh, I certainly resonate with that. I just competed in, uh, a bodybuilding contest a month ago. Uh, I've always been into weightlifting and bodybuilding, and, uh, the last time I competed was 20 years ago. And so-

[00:27:13] Braydan Young: Nice

[00:27:14] Richard Ellis: it was just, it was just a, a, a personal goal, you know. So it was the masters division, 50 and above, 55 and above. But to have that, I set that goal a year ago and said, "Okay, I'm gonna get in shape, uh, build my muscle back, you know, get shredded for the stage." And it was a lot of fun. Fascinating. Taught me a lot about discipline and consistency and all things that, you know, maybe I'd forgotten a little bit about, but really good.

[00:27:38] Richard Ellis: Well, thanks for sharing. That is good stuff. Let's all go exercise today after we listen- ... to the podcast, uh- That's perfect.

[00:27:44] Braydan Young: Thanks, Richard.

[00:27:44] Richard Ellis: Have a great one, and, uh, look forward to talking to you again.

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